DIY Legionella Risk Assessment Reports for Just £9

Excellent challenge on the basis of risk Graham.

Let me guess - the water management industry has a couple of posters here?

Key point everyone is missing: these 'rules' apply to landlords 'in business' as a landlord, and either self-employed or a company and thus an employer. The HSE guidance is incorrect (and it is just guidance anyway). The Law is what counts . .

HSE are enforcers of health and safety AT WORK legislation. Dutyholders under that legislation are employers. (This includes self-employed). To determine this, see HMRC guidance on landlords being in business and their liability to National Insurance (NICs).

1. Decide if you are a dutyholder - just being a landlord does not make you one, but being an employer 'in business' does.

2. If you are a dutyholder, decide on the appropriate level of response, which should not cost more than £10 if you use a simple form. Large, complex properties, HMOs etc, possibly get someone in to help, but not into 3 figure cost. HSE guidance does work for this - and also says they will not be actively enforcing in domestic properties anyway. (Hmmm. Because there is no real risk?).

3. If you are NOT a dutyholder, and most private landlords are not, (go back to HMRC if in doubt) then you only have to comply with gas, electrical and fire safety, plus (and this goes for ALL landlords anyway) Housing legislation via the Housing Health & Safety Rating System (HHSRS). This has a tiny reference to water systems and legionella, but any normal human being can deal with that in a few seconds.

HHSRS is enforced through local council officers, usually EHOs, and the maximum fine, for failing to deal with an enforcement notice, is £5000. It is not Health & Safety at Work, it is nothing to do with HSE, and nobody can go to prison (!).

Reply to the comment left by "Chris Daniel" at "10/10/2015 - 20:42":

Having looked at the risk assessment provided for the bargain price, you are paying for what you get…..There are numerous areas in it that would be challenged about whether they are "suitable and sufficient" by an EHO. The cold water storage tank has to comply with Water Regulations and I doubt if many landlords have sufficient knowledge to fully risk assess it. Screened air vents, correct location of inlet and outlet pipework, the absence of open vent pipes, the volume of water in relation to the number of users, etc etc. I can't understand why a landlord would not pay someone who has the required knowledge, training and competency to carry out the risk assessment, rather than run the risk of being personally responsible for someone's death and the litigation that would follow. It seems to be false economy really.

EHOs do not enforce legionella legislation, so the "suitable and sufficient" of which you speak is not applicable.
The HSE enforce H&S law in this area. The HSE say (in FAQs on website) they will not be "actively enforcing" on domestic landlords (good job as there are millions of them!).
EHOs enforce under the HHSRS which is not H&S law. These do mention water quality, but only in a broad sense, and EHOs cannot then push L8 onto landlords UNLESS they are H&S dutyholders (employed in the business of being a landlord).

Back to the actual risk.
It is so low (in standard domestic single let property) as to be effectively dismissed, along with many other tiny risks. As said already.

I would be concerned about fire, gas safety and the state of floors,stairs, paths, walls etc..

H&S law (if it applies in the first place) accepts the balance between level of risk and level of resources. The level of risk does not justify 3 (or even 2) figure outlays. Even one offs.

Reply to the comment left by "safetylady silver" at "16/11/2015 - 11:05":

I think we will agree to disagree. Water hygiene is as important as fire safety in my humble opinion and as a landlord, you have a duty of care to provide safe accommodation. Having worked in the plumbing industry for over 15 years, I have lost count of the number of non-compliant cold water tanks I have seen in domestic properties.

Your opinion regarding the risk "It is so low (in standard domestic single let property) as to be effectively dismissed, along with many other tiny risks. As said already." is not accurate in my opinion either and is frankly, irresponsible. The logic of "I would be concerned about fire, gas safety and the state of floors,stairs, paths, walls etc.." but to not include the water system, seems plain daft.

If a resident was to be unlucky enough to suffer ill health as a result of a poorly assessed and maintained water system, you would be leaving yourself wide open if you relied on these £10 risk assessments. Still, each to their own.......

Reply to the comment left by "Allan Mazey" at "07/10/2015 - 11:49":

Allan, I couldn't agree more with you! The phrase " a little knowledge is dangerous" springs to mind.....

I read through the assessment and there are numerous factors that are not included in it that you'd expect to find in a quality legionella risk assessment. Still if you're only paying £10, what can you expect? 🙂

Reply to the comment left by "Mike Wright" at "16/11/2015 - 11:41":

You are exactly right with both comments Mike.
The comment “It is so low (in standard domestic single let property) as to be effectively dismissed, along with many other tiny risks. is certainly an interesting statement !
A quality risk assessment by a competent person, will accurately determine the risk (whether it be tiny or large)and also give the landlord a document to rely on and refer to as an ongoing control mechanism.
Not bad value for circa £45.00 per annum.

Per annum? Why?

Reply to the comment left by "safetylady silver" at "16/11/2015 - 14:46":

Per annum because there is a duty of care placed upon a landlord to ensure that any risk assessment and written scheme of control generated from the assessment are reviewed on a regular basis to ensure you are effectively managing any risks from legionella and other waterborne contaminants.......any water hygiene consultant worth their salt would ensure their client maintained appropriate written documents that clearly demonstrate the risk has been COMPETENTLY assessed and suitable and sufficient remedial actions been carried out..... which naturally has a financial cost the same as a qualified and competent gas engineer making sure the gas boiler continues to be safe does.

The HSE have specifically rejected the recently developed myth that L8 risk assessments (lets ignore whether they are or are not required) have to be repeated at set, or annual, or biannual, intervals. This is not required.

Gas safety regulations are very specific (all landlords ARE dutyholders, no argument, it says so in the regulations). Annual gas appliance checks are mandatory, as is certification.
The risk from a faulty boiler IS significant, as is sadly evidenced on a frequent basis. Information on gas safety is also circulated to all householders, because there is a risk - to anyone.
The HSE also repeat that the risk of legionella in a domestic setting is 'very low'.

There is no comparison (although you would clearly like there to be) between gas boiler risk and domestic water supply legionella risk. Neither is the legislation comparable - the dutyholder list is different.

'Duty of care' is a civil law concept, best not to muddle it up with statutory legal requirements ('dutyholder').
'Review' does not mean 'repeat'.
'Regular' does not mean 'annual'.
The HSE are of the view that landlords may take on the task of assessing risk themselves (usually).
There is no legal requirement to record findings if the landlord does not employ 5 staff (ie. most landlords).

Whilst your comments may be valid in the context of a corporate situation where there are significant water-borne risks, they are not helpful to landlords, and are scare-mongering - even to full time, in business, employer landlords.

Reply to the comment left by "safetylady silver" at "16/11/2015 - 15:42":

Water Regulations are very specific too and there is a risk to anyone too.
I am well aware of what the HSE say about time periods for LRA and I did not say they are required annually in all cases.

None of my comments are scaremongering as they are all relevant. My primary concern is people's safety, not saving myself a few quid;
it seems mildly silly to want to save £90 by doing an assessment that you may not be competent to carry out rather than paying an expert to do it properly.

Even brand new properties supplied with cold mains and a combination boiler have risks that need considering. Like I said before, we best agree to disagree.