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Total Number of Property118 Comments: 193


17:58 PM, 20th November 2016, About 5 years ago

Summer Budget 2015 - Landlords Reactions

Reply to the comment left by "Dr Rosalind Beck" at "20/11/2016 - 16:50":

Ros. I think all four 2015 changes to Landlord taxes are very very wrong! And I have never said anything otherwise - Ever!.

I think they are unfair as they are retro...

I, over time, can however see that there is a good logic to the changes - That is VERY VERY different from agreeing with them or liking any part off them.

Were I just about to become a landlord for the first time and my research said there was a 3% surcharge when you buy as a landlord, you could not claim W&T at 10% and you could not claim mortgage interest and other finance costs as a cost of doing business and when you sell, you have to pay 28% CGT then I would still do it if the maths stacked up. I would not be saying that seems unfair or unjust or different... Would you?

My personal dissapointment, thoughts and feelings and the impact it could have on my family doesn't and shouldn't mean I should categorically deny any other view or opinion or that I should stick my head in the sand, ignoring or belittling or trying to silence all other viewpoints and wait to get my butt kicked.

I fear many others either still don't know about the Tenant Taxes whilst others don't or choose not to consider, think about or understand what the opposite opinion to ours is.

If those here on this forum, that very wrongly think I am for the tenant taxes, would read what I actually say, then they would see that there is a raft of productive work to be done. To understand the opposite position gives us strength and the best chance of finding a solution and or helping the other side see the consequences of their decisions - understand what they think and why. To simply nay-say and try to silence those that have a differing view is very wrong, unfair AND doesn't fix a thing.

Imagine you were not a landlord or a renter. You read the paper and you have a mortgage on your house... and breathe .... what position would you reasonably take on the tax changes for landlords. Could you understand why such a person would not be on our side? I am not asking if you think they are right or wrong i am challenging the forum to think of this from the otherside and realise the work we can do is to change the law on landlords being a business. Not trying to changing ourselves into an incorporated business or some other smart accounting trick - Change how we are currently viewed / treated so that landlords are a legal business and a legal tax entity that acts like a business.

My point is that we as landlords probably cant change the Tenant Taxes by anything other tan rent increases. A well balanced excellent report like your is fantastic if it reaches the right ears at the right time. However unfairness and unjustness to landlords are not going to be factors in undoing Tenant Tax.

So what... I say, lets pause, rethink, reload, re-aim and target what we can do to make a change. The first thing is to increase rents to collect the taxes and then to properly and professionally propose legislative changes that best suite the nations housing needs.

Goodness knows there are enough brains on this forum. Most of whom may not post for fear of being told to shut up or for fear of being accused of not being a landlord or accused of trying to sabotage or accused of batting for the other side or accused of thinking Tenant tax is right.. Come on Ros..., We are better than that on here arn't we?... Read More


16:33 PM, 20th November 2016, About 5 years ago

Summer Budget 2015 - Landlords Reactions

Reply to the comment left by "Michael Barnes" at "18/11/2016 - 11:48":


If we as a country recognise being a landlord is as running a business then all landlords of all tenures should be allowed to offset finance costs. At present that recognition is not law or tax status or even the majority view.

if we as country decide that finance costs for homes are not allowed as an off-setable cost as they are not for homeowner occupiers, then NO landlords should be able to offset their finance costs.

Under our nations current position on landlords... the only credible reason to allow any landlord to be able to offset their finance costs is because: To not allow landlords to offset their finance costs will create a chaos and havoc, the like of which we have not seen as a housing crises in this country. The havoc will be irreversible and irreparable and will manifest as homelessness and rents that are 50+% higher than now. That said rents will then properly reflect the disallowance of finance costs relief as an equal footing between tenants and owner occupiers.

The only defence to Tenant tax for a landlord is bankruptcy or to put up rents to fill the void left by the removal of finance costs relief. It is not the landlord that benefits or has benefited from the finance costs relief... is the tenant that has benefited by way of artificially low rents.

It is the government's job to set the policy and we landlords can work to change that policy / law but at present, my money is on it not being changed by landlords. If that could happen it would have happened already. It is, can and will only be changed by chaos and tenant uprisings. Fear will change this and it is between the government and the tenant as to who fears the most and who blinks first.

Step away from the emotion, history, and gut feel for a moment and image you are just a regular joe homeowner who is a PAYE employee who sees landlords as making money from something they don't get "finance costs relief on a domestic property".... Logically you would think.... why should a tenant live in a house for which they have put no capital at risk and yet that house has a mortgage and that mortgage has finance costs relief when I as a home owner also with a mortgage but with capital invested by way of deposit, can't have that same relief? Joe public must be thinking "Arn't tenants unfairly benefitting form the finance costs relief that I, an owner occupier, cant? and how is that fair?"

For me, all 4 2015 changes to landlords taxes are 100% Tenant Taxes for that reason. If the tenant wants or has to rent they can rent from me. My rent is and has always been and will continue to be, priced as a calculation of my costs plus a profit i want to make. My costs are decided by a number of things outside of my control and now it seems finance cost, price to buy, wear and tare and CGT are rising cost in my business. Thats is all that these changes are to all of us landlords as a matter of fact ......just a rising cost that we must pass on to the consumer... the tenant!

For the above reasons I have always advocated "put up your rents" and try to change the law but be realistic and accept that you may not change the law so you MUST change the rents.

Back to fear.... The fear here is between the tenant and the government where one will have to blink first! The vast majority of our nation will never like landlords. and never agree for us to have a relief they don't get. Even as i know the landlord brand must change, reality is that i do business to feed my family, not to be liked by the general public.... Read More


13:34 PM, 20th November 2016, About 5 years ago

Summer Budget 2015 - Landlords Reactions

Reply to the comment left by "Gareth Wilson" at "19/11/2016 - 13:57":

As Winston S Churchill said....

“This paper, by its very length, defends itself from ever being read.”... Read More


19:34 PM, 17th November 2016, About 5 years ago

Summer Budget 2015 - Landlords Reactions

Reply to the comment left by "David Price" at "17/11/2016 - 18:30":

David I am doing just that. I am not sure it will undo Tenant Tax but it is how to survive and sleep at night.... Read More


16:52 PM, 17th November 2016, About 5 years ago

Summer Budget 2015 - Landlords Reactions

Reply to the comment left by "Appalled Landlord" at "17/11/2016 - 16:29":

Okay Appalled please let me have you top 3 things you are going to do to undo Tenant Tax. If they are great and they are something I can do that will make a difference i will sign on - Promise. if they are not then the ability to sleep and live in serenity is appropriate don't you think.

The only people that will make a difference now is the tenants. HPC moaning or us moaning will not change a thing. They, the HPC arent listening anymore than you listen to them

Facts are useable by both sides. They, the HPC you say, can use the same facts as us. I am not clever and I am simply stating the facts if they had't realised that the Tenant Taxes have passed royal assent they I'd be very surprised. Unlike opinions where everyone is entitled to their own opinion, no-one is allowed their own facts there are just simple facts. Nothing I have said is wrong or useful to anyone who would undo you they are just facts my friend.

I agree with almost everything Dr Ros says and empathise or sympathise with 100% of what she says on here but that will not change the facts. I quite like your gusto but that will to change the facts either.

so what.... I believe we need to accept the fact that Tenant Taxes have been imposed and we need to either go insane, go broke or get on with collecting the money where we can through higher rents. Being a tax denier or hater will not make the Tenant Taxes go away. If the tenants pay the higher rents then happy days,... we make more the treasury make more and mrs suburbia can start to like us as full tax paying citozens. If tenants can't pay the higher rents then they will be homeless or they will revolt and that is a matter between the tenant and their government... not between me and my government. I know who i'll support in the fight but I will not and clearly can not have the fight myself for them. I have accepted that Tenant Tax is something I can not change with loathing and hate or any force I possess.

I have and will keep poking my MP and the chancellor weekly just so when they do repeal it I can say "told you so" i know however, they are not listening to me because they have nothing to fear from me except ridicule.

By the way, HPC group whoever they are, did not Make Tenant Tax happen and they can't keep it or stop it being repealed anymore then we, as landlords, can. If reason had a place in this matter it would have had its effect already. Fear is all that is left and so it will boil down to who is more scared... tenants or the government... as you would say.... End of story!... Read More