Can you split Property Portfolio in two parts to Incorporate?

Can you split Property Portfolio in two parts to Incorporate?

13:18 PM, 25th February 2020, About 4 years ago 18

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We currently have 20 properties, 10 of them in Surrey where we live and remaining 10 in Ashford Kent around 47 miles from our home.

As we understand incorporation relief is only available if we incorporate whole of portfolio. We have met 3 of Accountants and 2 of them have agreed that we can split portfolio in two due to geographical reasons and form a separate business.

The way they have described to go about it is to form an LLP for 2-3 years transfer properties into LLP and submit partnership accounts and then Incorporate into LTD company in order to receive s162 relief. We do not want to incorporate whole portfolio due to potentially double taxation on extraction and the fact we have favourable terms on properties owned in Surrey. All properties are jointly owned between my wife and myself and fully managed by us too.

I understand that legislation is clear that whole business must transfer in order to benefit from s162 relief, but equally I believe that as long as it can be demonstrated that what constitutes a separate business then it should satisfy s162 criteria. I believe formation of LLP and partnership accounts for 2-3 years will be able to distinguish between 2 portfolios.

Any input will be greatly appreciated.

Simon

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Comments

Simon Hall

10:18 AM, 29th February 2020, About 4 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Mark Alexander at 28/02/2020 - 18:16
Mark, would you be able to clarify above point? BTW when you back from Malta?

Mark Alexander - Founder of Property118

10:29 AM, 29th February 2020, About 4 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Simon Hall at 29/02/2020 - 10:18
Hi Simon

I have no intention of ever returning to live in the UK again. My wife and I really enjoy our nomadic lifestyle, living between our home in Malta and our holiday homes in Florida and the Black Earth region of Russia. However, we are again considering relocating our main home from Malta to Portugal again this Summer and if we do make the move there will obviously be blogs about that here.

In regards to your example, I am struggling because you haven't provided property values. The 3% additional rate doesn't apply on the uplift either. I generally leave this sort of number crunching to Mark Smith at Cotswold Barristers (above my pay grade!) but if you want to provide more detail I will ask him to comment. However, he does tend to operate on a "no fee no me" basis, so I cannot promise that he will respond to a hypothetical case on a forum, even ours LOL

Simon Hall

10:31 AM, 29th February 2020, About 4 years ago

Thanks Mark. Appreciate that.

Bemused

10:34 AM, 29th February 2020, About 4 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Mark Alexander at 25/02/2020 - 19:08
I agree. I think you are very generous in your free advice on 118 Mark. There’s more than £400 worth of information here already. I follow these posts avidly and having paid my money I am glad that someone knows what they’re talking about, as this is a minefield. It may be the best £400 I have ever spent in this business!! From reading these blogs it is clear that no two cases are the same. Although the legal tax principles remain the same, individual circumstances vary in subtle ways that matter. Having advice on my own personal situation made it clear what I should do and I stopped worrying about the what ifs.

Simon Hall

16:05 PM, 29th February 2020, About 4 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Mark Alexander at 29/02/2020 - 10:29
Mark, let's assume for the sake of simplicity, I bought 10 properties last year for £250K each and I paid £10000 Stamp Duty on each including 3% extra second homes surcharge. Therefore total stamp duty would amount to £100K on all properties. Let's again assume that I move properties in partnerships and now each property is worth £300k each but I decide to incorporate after 2 years as opposed to 3 years.

Assuming I paid correct stamp duty at the time of original purchase. What would be the outcome? based on above, I would pay the stamp duty again as I would have breached 3 years rule but on the difference between the original purchase price and present valuation (at the time of incorporation) i.e on £50K whatever stamp duty works out to be?

Mark Alexander - Founder of Property118

16:50 PM, 29th February 2020, About 4 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Simon Hall at 29/02/2020 - 16:05
That is my understanding, but in practice (if this was a real case) we would seek Counsel’s insured professional advice.

Simon Hall

17:01 PM, 29th February 2020, About 4 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Mark Alexander at 29/02/2020 - 16:50
Thanks Mark. Let me know when you are back in UK, I would like to have face to face meeting and would be happy to pay £400 for paid consultation. I prefer face to face meetings as opposed to video calls. I do not mind to travel to Norwich. I am sure you visit UK at least once a year?

Mark Alexander - Founder of Property118

17:15 PM, 29th February 2020, About 4 years ago

Reply to the comment left by Simon Hall at 29/02/2020 - 17:01
Hi Simon

As it happens I’m in the UK now. However, I only come to the UK to see friends and family, not to work.

We do have two other consultants in the UK though, Nicky Kita who is Norwich based and Alex Caravello in Milton Keynes. If you book a consultation and request one of them it’s no problem for Yvonne (our Executive Assistant) to organize.

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