Green Deal problem – Advice Requested

cluntiesmate says:

I have just spoken to the green deal information line and they inform me that the cost of insulation on a solid brick wall (anything built before circa 1968) is very expensive, £9-13000, There are no grants for this treatment and the price would be added to the power bills for the next multitude of years. This information must be passed onto any prospective tenant!! Let’s just say your power bills will be even higher for the next 20 years because the government want you to repay something that will not bear fruit until 20 years in the future!
Somehow I don’t think so!
Kev

Industry Observer says:

Sorry meant to add post April 2018 it is thought to be grade F and G properties that fall foul not E

matchmade2 says:

I believe this insistence on raising the property to EPC level E will only apply to landlords: homeowners as usual won’t be required to do anything unless they sell. However once the general public realises that they have to raise their properties to level E, otherwise they will never be allowed to sell their homes, there is going to be an enormous political response.

Level E is actually quite hard to reach with an old pre-1920s property with solid walls, unless you are prepared to go for external wall insulation, which will destroy your original features (fireplaces, cornicing) if you have it done on the inside, and destroy the external appearance (window reveals, attractive Victorian decorative brickwork etc) if you have it done on the outside. Compulsory PVC double-glazing also ruins the external appearance of old houses in my view because the window bars are so fat, the glass will be modern super-flat which lacks character, and PVC manufactuers seem incapable of making a decent sash window. To have new double-glazed sash windows made up in wood will cost a fortune and is still much less attractive than the originals because the glass lacks variation and character. The mad rush towards converting all houses into airless sealed “green” boxes is going to lead to enormous destruction of our housing heritage.

Roger Lancaster says:

Hi David
I think you may have missed a trick here.
We have a number of solid wall properties of varying ages most of which have tenants who are in receipt of LHA and also other benefits. I have been given to understand that where tenants are on qualifying benefits, under the ECO (Energy Company Obligation) scheme, so long as the tenants apply to the company and meet the qualifying standards, neither the Landlord or the tenant pays anything at all, not even by way of a charge on the electricity bill. If they apply and the property is assessed the energy companies fund the recommended improvements so long as they make economic sense, The measures include, replacement boilers for solid fuel, oil or gas over five years old, central heating systems, insulations of various kinds including solid wall and even double glazing and energy generation measures. Furthermore even if they subsequently leave and a none qualiying tenant takes their place no charges are transferred.
I am waiting to have my first properties assessed by the newly qualified green deal assessor. There seems at last to be something positive about having an LHA tenant to compensate for all the problems the new Universal Credit is going to bring.
I have also been told that with recent developments in insulation technology, internal solid wall insulation is possible without substantially reducing room sizes. As most of my solid wall properties are mid-terrace, the loss of space is minimal and the cost is nothing like the figures quoted above and they are grant aidable under both GD and ECO.
Get the tenants applying now. Good luck.
Roger

Mary Latham says:

David there will also be BIG pot of ECO money for landlords with tenants who are not on any benefits – a different pot and also for working owner occupiers. Government have been made aware that targetting people on benefits as they have been will leave a lot of properties outside of the Golden Rule and they have addressed this issue.
Follow me on Twitter@landlordtweets

Mark Alexander says:

Hi David

I have lots of questions about the Green Deal, would you be interested in an online open Q&A session?

Thomas Hart says:

Yes Mark

Mark Alexander says:

That’s great Thomas, let’s start by me asking you what qualifies you to answer questions about the Green deal please.

Roger Edwards says:

The man from the council is basically correct, I am not sure that you cannot sell the property however you would not be able to re-let.

Unless the properties are listed there is no reason the tenants should be effected by the insulation works as you can insulate externally which in any case is far superior. With materials now available you can transform a sad looking building into a very modern looking building very warm and waterproof. What`s more this could be funded by an ECO, part of the Green Deal.

Industry Observer says:

Excuse length of this post but have been researching, gathering comment from expert sources, and away on holiday!! Below are extracts from various responses to the original article and *** comments on them

I believe this insistence on raising the property to EPC level E will only apply to landlords: homeowners as usual won’t be required to do anything unless they sell.
***It is under discussion to bring in a limit on selling homes below a certain level too, but that is further away***

However once the general public realises that they have to raise their properties to level E, otherwise they will never be allowed to sell their homes there is going to be an enormous political response.
***This is only a proposal***

Level E is actually quite hard to reach with an old pre-1920s property with solid walls, ………mad rush towards converting all houses into airless sealed “green” boxes is going to lead to enormous destruction of our housing heritage.
***I guess it is that or risk destroying the plant!**

Much can happen between now and 2018 and as I understand, this ‘suggested’ piece of legislation has not been finalised.
***Not true. The act requires regulations to be brought into force by April 2018, though the level of a minimum standard is not yet set.***

Beware – the GDA providers may not necessarily be the best cost effective companies to deal with. The loan of the GD is close to 7%. It may be more effective to just get a loan from elsewhere and get a company to fit at a lower cost
***Agree entirely***.

Who would go to a utility firm to get a new heating system!!! – but many do and find out later that they have paid 50% extra. Also sales of GD loans will written on the EPC and many buyers (if you decide to sell before 16yrs of having loan) will require the loan paid off which attracts a penalty or a reduction in the sale price.
***Correct***

Also these golden rules are blown out of the water when the occupancy rate changes – they are only valid for 12 months.

***Incorrect. The golden rule is the golden rule at the point of the green deal being agreed. Actually, over time the saving will increase as less power is consumed so the householder will make more saving using less power but the amount on green deal remains static. Also understand that the golden rule is a little tarnished in that it is not a guarantee it won’t happen, only a guarantee they won’t go ahead if it appears to fail the golden rule test. There are too many factors out of control. For example, what if the tenant felt they were not wasting so much heat in a draughty house so chose to run it at a warmer temperature increasing consumption in a way the calculation does not consider***

We have a number of solid wall properties of varying ages most of which have tenants who are in receipt of LHA and also other benefits. I have been given to understand that where tenants are on qualifying benefits, under the ECO (Energy Company Obligation) scheme, so long as the tenants apply to the company and meet the qualifying standards, neither the Landlord or the tenant pays anything at all, not even by way of a charge on the electricity bill.

***ECO is split into three areas, Standard Eco deals with hard to treat properties. Then they is benefit Eco which is the one mentioned here and if the occupier is in receipt of these then all the basic work can be done for free. There is also location Eco which is being used to target specific geographical areas. All of these are limited pots of money.***

These last two by Mary Latham

Please visit the DECC website and search for Green Deal and ECO funding I’m sure that you will find this information most useful as it will show you not only how to improve your properties with no upfront costs to yourself but there is also a cash back scheme that you will be eligible for every measure you take out to improve reduce the carbon emissions from your properties .
***Correct but max £1000 per property and limited funds first come first served.***

There will be ECO subsidies to cover these hard to heat properties regardless of the tenants circumstances. Solid wall insulation does not meet the Golden Rule and therefore will not come under Green Deal for most properties

***But most properties with solid walls will be hocked to the max under green deal and then get a top up from ECO. For the list of what is allowed under green deal see the regs***